So the Lib Dems are, irresponsibly and against the wishes of the voters, using Labour to try to squeeze whatever they can out of the Tories; and Labour, disgracefully and against the wishes of a great number of their members, are trying any avenue at all that might keep them in power. The so-called ‘progressives’ have thereby squandered in three days whatever goodwill had been created by Friday’s speeches.
Does anyone have an alternative analysis of this?
24 comments:
Plenty of people. Peter Hain, Ben Bradshaw, Simon Hughes, David Steel, Ali Campbell, [continue ad nauseum]...
Good this dry run at PR, innit?
I worry more and more about Campbell. He has the mad, humourless eyes of the fanatic ready to explode. Why is he even still hanging around politics?
Because he's an evil, power-mad genius?
Sorry to keep providing sort of glib answers. But it is simply about following the power. That's what it's all about. A great spectator sport, if nothing else.
It's ok, they were both rhetorical questions.
There is of course no alternative analysis - it's rare that politicking is quite so shameless.
It's horrible, it genuinely makes me depressed.
sorry to theorise but "fairnes" is the issue that obsesses the left, be it votes.taxes, wealth ect.
When you belive things can be "fair" you and us voters are in a lot of trouble, especially when power games come into play.
*checkout Boulton lining up the blairs cloass thug for a slap, fantastic.
Surely the Tories have all the ammunition though? A LibLab coalition would result in a swift election, at which the voters would punish the Libs by wiping them from Parliament, AV or no AV.
If they fail to reach an agreement with the Tories, it proves that in any PR system, we'd be condemned to endless Lib-Lab coalition governments, or, effectively, the English ruled by Labour's Scottish majority. Some Tories in the south should match on London, instead of leaving it all to Billy Bragg and his mates.
Our view of these events is pretty darn foggy. So much of the print media has a vested interest in big-upping one side or another. I wonder if some newspapers see PR as a threat to their (imagined?) influence.
I've read some stunningly undemocratic comments from all sorts of people, inside politics and beyond. It's scary to know how many people out there would have little or no problem with dictatorship provided it was their kind of dictatorship.
It's the young whom we are asking to work off this debt burden and whose lives will be most affected by it. Not nearly enough attention is being paid to them, imho. Most of the main players will have retired on hefty pensions (often state pensions) years or decades earlier. I wonder if this is oldies versus the rest.
Brown is a flirting with being a traitor.
Clegg has revealed that he is an empty suit and that the Liberals are a single issue party who, when the overwhelming issue facing the country is the state of the public finances, are only concerned with changing the electoral system to their advantage. Sorry, that of course should be, as the BBC would say, "concerned with 'reforming' the electoral......".
It can only get worse as all the parties revert to increasingly partisan stances.
Whatever happens, it seems that the Scots, Welsh and Ulstermen will get a pain free option whilst the English are squeezed to buggery.
Grrrrrrrrrr.......
It seems to be that Clegg was ok to go with ConLib, but the Lib Dem MPs put the squeeze on.
Given the insane 75% system, 14 rebel LibDem MPs can effectively hold the UK to ransom.
Was the cause of English nationalism brought to life yesterday? From Conservative and Unionist to Conservative and English Nationalist?
It's been slow but inevitable since Scottish devolution, Gaw, but from the English side not the Scottish. There was a poll in 2006 showing that 51% of Scots wanted separation; and 59% of English did. Can you imagine if the SNP are bought by the Coalition of the Crap to keep the Tories out?
Brown at the mic yesterday had the appearance of a Rauchenburg number plate, inside the door his missus checked his tie and flies, pressed the button on the back of his neck marked 'speak in a magisterial tone' and shoved him out of the door, lines in hand, good riddance to the clown.
The media went into default mode and wheeled out the contents of a Victorian lunatic asylum culminating in the surplus to requirements, nothingness personified Steel then opened the lid of the septic tank, the foul stench of Campbell filled the room. Later they resurrected the corpses of some tory grandees. The De Medicis would be green with envy.
Shame on the BBC for not topping off the day with a nice lynching.
Whatever one might think about the guy he's arguing with, Alistair Campbell displays the worst kind of Labour dishonesty and arrogance here:
http://www.youtube.comk/watch?v=0XHuZqyuIS8
and Ben Bradshaw's Twitter comment that 'The Bullingdon boy didn't win, get over it!' adds insult to injury.
I've been reduced to comfort-eating, so high are my current anxiety levels. So far today: one bacon butty, one fruit danish and two large lattes. Only two hours till lunch...
While I am on the subject and fool that I am for asking, Yesterday Steel admitted that he hated the Tories.
This individual was presiding officer for the Scottish Parliament, like the speaker at Westminster, supposedly politically neutral.
Have I missed something in my journey through life?
Have a tin of Campbell's soup Sophie.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, Malty, I'm now feeling a bit sick. Time for a brisk walk.
I'm watching this all with great interest from here in the colonies and looking for parallels with our situation. The short version is we have had four years of minority Tory government with the three-party opposition screaming daily about how they are destroying democracy and crushing dissent, while regularly declining to vote them out. But I've never seen anything quite like your PM promising to quit "by September" if he can stay in power. Isn't that a bit like trying to convince a woman to marry you by promising to find a way to die soon after the wedding?
... and Broon has only said it as a last attempt to keep the Tories out, Peter. One of the least honourable resignations ever, but that's the man for you.
... and Broon has only said it as a last attempt to keep the Tories out, Peter. One of the least honourable resignations ever, but that's the man for you.
As Peter says, it's pretty fun to watch from 3000 miles away. One thing to keep in mind is that it's always heartbreaking to watch negotiations. People in negotiations have to make unreasonable demands that they know will never fly; if you walk in with reasonable demands, you end up halfway to the other side's unreasonable demands.
In other words, there is every possibility that Labour is just a stick Clegg is using to beat the Tories to get the best deal he can
The threat Clegg has to watch for is that the Tories don't really want to control a minority or coalition government over the next two years. If they don't, then the trick for the Tories is to appear reasonable during negotiations, but then let Clegg make a "final demand" that they can reasonably walk away from. "We tried," they'd say, "but the LibDems demanded we go straight to PR without a referendum, and that we couldn't agree to."
My guess is still a ConLib agreement, although not necessarily a coalition. The Lib's agree not to vote against the government for, say, a year, and the Tories agree to take the blame for slashing government spending.
David
In other words, there is every possibility that Labour is just a stick Clegg is using to beat the Tories to get the best deal he can
I think that's true, and I think your conclusion is the most realistic outcome ... but this isn't a straightforward negotiation between autonomous parties. LibDem rules mean that 75% of their MPs have to agree to the power-share. That means just 15 Tory-haters amongst them can scupper it. There are futher procedures for the Lib Dems if they do, but that could take weeks and the markets are not happy.
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