tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post8484995242346873286..comments2023-11-05T08:01:10.010+00:00Comments on Think of England: American ExceptionalismBrithttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-41325015253429832632010-10-02T00:34:28.941+01:002010-10-02T00:34:28.941+01:00Brit:
So my question is this: is there a more str...Brit:<br /><br /><i>So my question is this: is there a more striking anomaly anywhere, in terms of global approaches to ethics and politics, than the fact that the US is on the second list rather than the first?</i><br /><br />In order for that anomaly to be striking, it should actually be, well, an anomaly.<br /><br />Your question pitches cause and effect into the same bucket, which prevents Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-20400530415487598112010-09-30T23:28:18.314+01:002010-09-30T23:28:18.314+01:00Brit -
Comparing your two alphabetical lists to s...Brit -<br /><br />Comparing your two alphabetical lists to see which letters are missing in each, I come up with the following:<br /><br />No death penalty: JKOQWXYZ (that’s 8 missing letters)<br /><br />Death penalty: FHRWX (that’s five missing letters)<br /><br />My conclusions? I have two: 1) That the pro-death penalty camp is more representative of the alphabet as a whole, and 2) That there Ian Wolcotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13824138231723753507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-71431019978847047622010-09-30T22:48:36.131+01:002010-09-30T22:48:36.131+01:00Oh, I see. I state clearly twice that I'm on ...Oh, I see. I state clearly twice that I'm on your side in the face of bloodthirsty cries for revenge from the Rapacious Yankee Trader, but because I don't get there by the same route, and even deign to point out that Rapacious Yankee Traders have mommies too, I'm the fanatic.<br /><br /><i>Sigh</i>. It's not easy being Canadian.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836910211382887430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-8802917405446042432010-09-30T21:22:23.461+01:002010-09-30T21:22:23.461+01:00He is the conservative's conservative.He is the conservative's conservative.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902329503560660425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-28472541960783147292010-09-30T20:30:57.528+01:002010-09-30T20:30:57.528+01:00...whereas Peter, clearly suffering from ADS*, is ......whereas Peter, clearly suffering from ADS*, is vigorously buttonholing me because I don't want to change a major law on the basis of a popular poll registering in the sixty percents...thus seriously threatening his number one Conservativer-Than-Thou status.<br /><br /><br /><br />*Argument Deficiency SyndromeBrithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-8140726915382629992010-09-30T20:06:14.725+01:002010-09-30T20:06:14.725+01:00It's worth noting that both Brit and I are arg...It's worth noting that both Brit and I are arguing for the status quo, our statuses having different quos.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902329503560660425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-42428087173408575242010-09-30T17:03:28.353+01:002010-09-30T17:03:28.353+01:00You tell him, Brit. You're making me nostalgic...You tell him, Brit. You're making me nostalgic for our Darwinist days. Evidenced-based science is no substitute for what we feel is right in our bones.<br /><br />Still, aren't you afraid Skipper will weigh in to insist you are making a category error leading to a null hypothesis?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836910211382887430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-53744960887477731112010-09-30T16:38:08.519+01:002010-09-30T16:38:08.519+01:00First thing we do, let's execute all the socia...First thing we do, let's execute all the social scientists...Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-15787082066506748622010-09-30T16:27:01.584+01:002010-09-30T16:27:01.584+01:00it's a moral obligation to execute, and the mo...<i>it's a moral obligation to execute, and the more the better.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=691447" rel="nofollow">That was the conclusion of Cass Sunstein (now of the Obama White House) and Adrian Vermeule</a> reacting to research showing that each execution saves 18 lives.<br /><br />Since then, research that shows that this finding is not Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902329503560660425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-26811629985192622892010-09-30T15:59:16.708+01:002010-09-30T15:59:16.708+01:00each execution saves at least 3 lives
Goodness. ...<i>each execution saves at least 3 lives</i> <br /><br />Goodness. So, the more people you execute the more you save. In that case, it's a moral obligation to execute, and the more the better. Somebody tell the Swedes, they'll insist on introducing it on health and safety grounds....Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-77945675457757541722010-09-30T15:09:58.946+01:002010-09-30T15:09:58.946+01:00As long as we're getting shirty about things w...As long as we're getting shirty about things we've already said, let me note that I've already said that my reading of the social science literature is that there is a weak consensus that there's a weak deterrent effect. If the question is really whether <i>anyone</i> thinks that there's a deterrent effect, than I would say most Americans do, and they're supported by the Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902329503560660425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-62756388549043941312010-09-30T15:00:43.585+01:002010-09-30T15:00:43.585+01:00what is it about CP that allows you to distinguish...<i>what is it about CP that allows you to distinguish it so sharply and discount public opinion in so many ways</i><br /><br />I have, surely, answered that one at length in the post below and in previous ones.<br /><br /><br /><i>Would you see reconsideration as a legitimate response to out-of-control crime and violence and a breakdown of civil order, or as akin to a re-introduction of chattel Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-88108555857602956682010-09-30T14:48:02.873+01:002010-09-30T14:48:02.873+01:00OK, another point of contention is your implied pr...OK, another point of contention is your implied presumption that abolition is (and should be) a one way street, because after all, it represents not so much a more just and efficient way for a particular country to run its criminal law system at a particular point in history, but timeless and universal moral progress. The debate is largely about when the States is going to join the civilized Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836910211382887430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-324671111046885772010-09-30T13:54:22.848+01:002010-09-30T13:54:22.848+01:00You've both rather misinterpreted my tone, whi...You've both rather misinterpreted my tone, which is always a danger when using text rather than speech. <br /><br />I'm interested in hearing interpretations of the observation, which you've given, not using this as an argument for why the US should abolish.Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-43943239632497264732010-09-30T13:50:34.740+01:002010-09-30T13:50:34.740+01:00My point is that your anomoly is somewhat artifica...My point is that your anomoly is somewhat artifical and self-created, first by equating countries like Finland and New Zealand with the likes of India and Indonesia and secondly by framing the issue in such stark "civilized vs. barbaric" terms. 60% of the world lives under CP laws, so who exactly is out of step here? Brit, do you secretly yearn to be a 19th century missionary bringing Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836910211382887430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-19343629574128184772010-09-30T13:47:03.912+01:002010-09-30T13:47:03.912+01:00First, as your title for this post implies, we don...First, as your title for this post implies, we don't mind being an anomaly. As you may know, a large number of us are up-in-arms over the possibility that the Supreme Court might use foreign law to help interpret the Constitution, and in particular the Cruel and Unusual clause.<br /><br />Let's put it this way. Show people from the UK and the US a newspaper headline "The [UK/US} Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902329503560660425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-49108707059019941612010-09-30T11:14:03.900+01:002010-09-30T11:14:03.900+01:00I don't see it as a question of teams, Peter, ...I don't see it as a question of teams, Peter, but I do think it is, or at least looks like, a bizarre anomoly when you view it from that angle.<br /><br />And if it isn't an anomoly, or it isn't bizarre, why isn't it?Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-63264318372175291522010-09-30T11:09:46.464+01:002010-09-30T11:09:46.464+01:00Nothing shakes your average patriotic American'...Nothing shakes your average patriotic American's faith in his country like pointing out to him that it is out of step with the likes of Finland, Slovakia and Lichtenstein.<br /><br />There are a few distortions in the way this has been presented. Almost all of Asia has CP, which not only makes the suggestion most of the world is anti-CP problematic, it raises the interesting question of Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836910211382887430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-20844425556337795552010-09-30T09:43:26.343+01:002010-09-30T09:43:26.343+01:00Just remembered a story which relates to Brit'...Just remembered a story which relates to Brit's last post on this topic, about not trusting opinion surveys.<br /><br />I was on a train and on the same table as me was a middle-aged lady and a young man. They were talking about anti-social behaviour for some reason and the young man proposed capital punishment as a solution. The woman nodded thoughtfully with a worried look on her face Gareth Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05058241057385364459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-53927247714893724922010-09-29T22:37:09.313+01:002010-09-29T22:37:09.313+01:00David: ...and not Switzerland either, where the pl...David: ...and not Switzerland either, where the place is chock a block with guns but nobody in enlightened precincts cares much.Vernnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-14060462000627190052010-09-29T21:45:33.693+01:002010-09-29T21:45:33.693+01:00Malty:
You do realize that you've now limited...Malty:<br /><br />You do realize that you've now limited civilization to western Europe since the 60s?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902329503560660425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-11300180818110471112010-09-29T20:31:20.933+01:002010-09-29T20:31:20.933+01:00Yes yes, Shaun, I'm sure the Apocalypse will b...Yes yes, Shaun, I'm sure the Apocalypse will be along soon and you'll be allowed to hang as many Muslims as you like.Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-21950447991222881132010-09-29T20:20:24.208+01:002010-09-29T20:20:24.208+01:00Lets say for the sake of argument that we have som...Lets say for the sake of argument that we have something like a 9/11 attack the outcry and demand for CP would be a big political issue.<br /><br />Thus by not having the limited use of CP you would open the door to the BNP or such like who will run with it and make strong gains from it.<br /><br />So your wrong Brit, it is an issue here, and as Garth points out in his London post, there is a Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362169593902131947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-70760817775628174862010-09-29T20:17:34.575+01:002010-09-29T20:17:34.575+01:00The list is revealing, Leonard Cheshire, that most...The list is revealing, Leonard Cheshire, that most christian of individuals and an observer of the Japanese and their barbarity, summed up the nation quite neatly 'there is something disturbing about a people who so easily throw down their weapons and say, now show us how to be Christian' They of course have the death penalty, neither have they ever, unlike the Germans, or us, admitted maltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02936465848907794425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9501938.post-34242695900790973452010-09-29T19:49:39.372+01:002010-09-29T19:49:39.372+01:00It's the executioners I feel sorry for: http:/...It's the executioners I feel sorry for: http://zmkc.blogspot.com/2010/09/hanging-too-good-for-them.htmlzmkchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08972549292961948240noreply@blogger.com